SOME OF THE GRASSROOTS’ANSWERS TO IMPACT ASSESSMENT
QUESTIONS
Interviewer:
Paulin
Place:
Butare
Time:
8th may, 2012
1st
person (female, 64 years old)
1. During
the Cambodian play, I was impressed by the way they were open and courageous to
share their own sad story. I felt I should have no more fear or shame to also
do the same.
2. I feel
no division in myself, never; neither fear because we were taught by La Benevolencija in
trainings, Cambodian play and through prayers by pastors.
3. In the
play, I saw how one girl who had been raped smiled at her opponents in the end
and I felt inspired and I need to be good to people even though they offend me.
4. The
play didn’t clearly show how they mourned their lost friends and brothers. In
addition, we didn’t know if Cambodia
has a commemoration period like us. I was instead touched and hurt by the fact
that some of the female artists were crying; not as part of the play but
because they are touched.
5. Even
before I watch the play, I tried to live connected to my neighbors because of
the message from La
Benevolencija’s training and our pastor’s preaching. But the
play too, helped me a lot, I liked how the whole team of artists got together
and sing in the end; it showed me that as Rwandans we also have to live together
in peace without any form of suspicion.
2nd
person, female, 34
1. After
the Cambodians shared their own stories to us, the other people on the other
continent, I felt warmly encouraged to do the same especially because their
message was really rich and touching.
2. Even
before the play, I didn’t have such kinds of feelings in me. The training that
we had with La
Benevolencija taught us a lot about avoiding hate and
division between neighbors.
3. We
have had much training: La
Benevolencija, our church and other people have always been
teaching us to fight hate and anger to live in peace with our neighbors these
being perpetrators or victims. The play came as an additional message. The last
scene of the play; where the artists sang all together showed me that after
many conflicts, people can still rejoice together again.
4. I
usually don’t want to think a lot about the people that I lost because this
would make me sadder.
5. As I
mentioned before, we have always been taught and trained how to peacefully live
with one another.
3rd
person, male, 50
1. I can
now share my genocide-related stories with others because we are no longer
afraid of anything or anyone. The government and other people who trained us
for instance La
Benevolencija have ended our fears.
2. The
play didn’t clearly show how one can avoid hate. However, they said that
revenge is paid by revenge and this never ends. This statement was very
convincing to me.
3. Before
the play, I couldn’t freely go to someone and ask them for forgiveness. But when
I saw how Sekaganda (Gratien) was encouraging that woman to go to see
Chea; whom she had committed some crimes and she accepted, I said everything is
possible.
4. He
doesn’t particularly mourn. He did not lose close friends or relatives.
5. He
learned how to forgive even when it seems hardly possible. My daughter
seriously fractured her arm. Another girl violently took the can from her hands
because they were fighting to get water and she got a fracture. I would have
take n her to jail if I hadn’t learned to forgive but I thought it was just
because they were trying to get water as quickly as possible.
4th
person, female, 40
1. I
didn’t clearly understand the play because I was sitting far in the back, but I
usually have no shame or fear to talk about things that happened to me during
our genocide.
2. I have
no fear any more. We are guaranteed by our government which always seeks peace
for its people.
3. I
always try not to harm anyone and to be good to everyone. I learned that hate
and rancor is the source of conflicts and even genocide.
4. I
normally do not mourn my own losses. However, in the last commemoration week, I
tried joining my neighbors who were having some commemoration events. I helped
with preparations.
5. From
the play, I learned to talk to people who are still stubborn and don’t want to
be good to their opponents. I share with them messages I got from La Benevolencija and
some of them finally change.
5th
person, male, 19
1. I do
not have any genocide-related story to share because I was only one year old.
2. I have
no feelings of anger and hate. I also try to fight any revenge feeling that may
rise in me; I can’t listen to anyone who tries to tell to know much about
people who killed my parents and siblings. This is because I think it would
result in something not good; wanting to revenge for instance.
3. As he
is in charge of security in the neighborhood, he tries to fight against any
ideology or speeches that would bring genocide back.
4. I do
not want to think much about my parents that I lost.
5. I
didn’t understand the whole play, but I normally try my best to peacefully live
with others; especially my age mates.
6th
person, female, 43
1. I have
a story quite similar to Chea’s. I was targeted during our genocide but I
always tried to lie about my ethnic group, soldiers then took me and one of
them forced me to marry him. Before, I couldn’t tell this story to anyone but
today, after I watched how Chea let her story be revealed, I can share it to my
friends.
2. I had
a plan to be a soldier and revenge some time but I left it. I knew how to
forgive, forget the bad past and focus on my economy in the future.
3. As I
am an umudugudu leader, I have to be exemplary. I need to get along with
everyone so that all my neighbors can copy from me as both someone who was
trained by La
Benevolencija and their leader. I succeed and find this
something to be proud of.
4. I do
not have time and courage to mourn my losses because I live far from the place
where I was born and I am the only one who left in my family.
5. I
realized that the source/cause of the Cambodian Genocide wasn’t enough to cause
such a tragedy. I therefore want to avoid anything, however small it is, that
can bring back what happened in the genocide. For instance in Rwandan
community, there is a saying “ABAKIRE SI ABANTU” that translates “RICH PEOPLE
ARE NOT PEOPLE”. If I try to relate this to the Cambodian history, I see that
rich people were killed just because they were rich. So, for us too, we never
know, this saying may make some people think otherwise or ask themselves “SO,
WHAT ABOUT POOR PEOPLE?. That is why I try to avoid it.
Interviewer:
Paulin
Place:
Kigali, La Benevolencija office
Date:
9th, May 2012
1st person, female, 54
1. Even before the play, I could speak
in public about my own experience. I saw that what happened to Cambodians is
the same like our story. The difference is that we had our fellow from overseas
who liberated us whereas for the Cambodians, they stopped themselves.
The
girl that stopped talking shared her story and inspired me a lot.
2. Even
the one who thinks of doing it can’t find way to because of the good governance
we have now. People are awoken; no one can be easily corrupted. We are only
focusing on good ideas on thoughts how to build our country. We would join our
forces to fight he who would have such mentalities because we already know the
bad and how to fight it.
3. What
happened will never happen again, the play gave me the hope for the brighter
future. I think tomorrow will be much better because Rwanda has good trainings which
guarantee a better future for next generations. The last scene where they all
got together and ding to show that they are together impressed me the most; I
saw and believed that after a violent conflict, people can still regain their
conviviality.
4. The
play made me feel like I have to have other various people join me to mourn my
losses given that even foreign people joined us. I was very pushed to call
local leaders, neighbors and friends from other regions to join my family to
mourn our lost beloved brothers and sisters.
5. The
play taught me to get together with a variety of people after the violence.
6. The
two genocides have some things in common such as raping, loud violent voice
(Khmer rouge, and Interahamwe), and pillaging. The singing at the end reminded
me of the way we sang that RPF had won and was going to liberate us. The
difference is that rich people were targeted in Cambodia
whereas in Rwanda,
Tutsis were.
7. I
didn’t know Cambodia
before.
8. Suggestion:
fundraise for the grassroots to go to Cambodia and share their stories
too.
2nd person, female, 50
1. If I try to compare things of Cambodia and our story, I see that Angka is
compared to interahamwe, and rich people who were killed in Cambodia versus Tutsis in Rwanda.
The
play would help me better if the woman who was accused of genocide related
crime confessed.
2. No
revenge in myself. We have a strong army, a nice president who teaches us unity
and reconciliation up to umudugudu level. I have hope that it will never happen
again differently from Cambodians who never had someone close to comfort and
secure them.
3. I
can’t get along with someone who doesn’t accept their crimes. The guy who had
been in the forest with his fellow is a typical example in the play; I can calm
down and convince such kind of person when I find them.
4. I felt
chagrined as Cambodians did, but I had a chance because I was asked for
forgiveness. The government helped us mourn with the mourning period and our
hurt heals. The play helped me feel encouraged to help those who got trauma
during commemoration.
As
they played, I felt warmly touched by their story and remembered mine. I was
also sad because they did not find means to mourn theirs.
5. If I
meet someone who hasn’t accepted yet their stories, I help them by teaching
them. I forgive he who asks me for forgiveness and we can relive peacefully
with each other.
6. I
didn’t know Cambodia
before.
7. I can
compare Angka to Interahamwe or bad president because they respected him a lot
as interahamwe did for the late Habyarimana.
In Cambodia rich and intellectual people and even
those who wore glasses were killed whereas in Rwanda, Tutsis and some moderate
Hutus having ideas different from Habyarimana’s were.
RPF
Inkotanyi stopped the killings in Rwanda but we didn’t know how their
killings ended. We have Gacaca jurisdictions which punish perpetrators and
reveal the truth whereas only trial has been processed in Cambodia.
3rd
person, female, 33
1. I can
share my own story where I was about to be held as a wife to one of the
soldiers, similar to Chea’s. I can also share story about my father who
committed some crimes in genocide.
2. The
play didn’t show clearly the offended and the offending people together one
asking forgiveness to another. The play did not also show how the situation was
after the genocide.
3. The
play helped me improve the relationship with people that my mother committed
crimes to. I was inspired by the woman who went to see Chea, I didn’t go to ask
for forgiveness because I had already done it but I strengthened the
relationship by visiting them very often. I also urged my mother to ask for
forgiveness, she did, was released. And after she was released, we all kept
peacefully living with the people she had offended and up to now, the
relationship is good.
4. I did
have no mourns. No losses.
5. I
continuously live peacefully with survivors and I try explaining to my mother
that the conditions we are living are not the fault of the justice but the
result of the crime she committed. I voluntarily joined the Gacaca jurisdiction
to accurately find information about my mum’s crime and the corresponding
punishment and what the survivors really deserve.
6. I
didn’t know Cambodia
before.
7. Cambodian
genocide versus Rwandan genocide: The Cambodian government didn’t plan the
genocide, only gangsters did (Young men in black coats).
Intellectuals
were killed in Cambodia
whereas Tutsis and moderate Hutus were in Rwanda. Rwandan genocide was ended
by Inkotanyi whereas gangsters in Cambodia stopped killing
themselves. The play didn’t show how Cambodian society is to day after the
genocide while we have Gacaca, unity and reconciliation… in Rwanda.
4th
person, male, 55
1. The
play didn’t help me much because its beginning and end were not clear, I
suggested they would clearly show who is targeted, how they are killed and what
things he is pillaged.
2. We
have no more fear because those guilt people asked for forgiveness and
reconciliations is ongoing. We also keep looking for more precise history. So
no revenge and anger. In the play, the beginning of Chea’s scene was tears but
at the end she was smiling. This means they reconciled in some way. Their
reconciliation is not clear but ours is clear and open, we reconcile publicly.
3. The
play didn’t help us because we didn’t know who was to be killed and why.
4. Their
genocide had no clear preparation and end; it may re start any time t. I felt
more hurt because the play related to my experience whereby my brothers didn’t
know who were killing them and I never knew their ending.
5. There
is a scene where a person tried to reconcile people but they finally didn’t.
So, it didn’t help me.
6. I just
knew a little about Cambodia
before.
7. Cambodian
genocide versus Rwandan one: There has been no confession in Cambodia, while many people in Rwanda have
publicly admitted their crimes and their sentences were reduced. Rwanda genocide was prepared for long by bad
governance and implemented by bad political parties whereas for Cambodia it’s
just a troupe of gangsters who wanted to get things of rich people who never
prepared what to kill with. In addition Rwanda genocide was implemented by
groups of people.
5th person female 43
1. Cambodian people are different from
Rwandans, they play what they experienced. I am free to talk about my own story
even though it would be sad or shameful. I learned it from a scene where a
woman shared her story when she small girl wanted to steal rice and when a
woman was urging one man to tell the truth.
2. No
fear at all and I would be a positive bystander if violence happened again.
3. I
learned how to overcome anger and rancor so as to peacefully live with my
opponents, like the man who stood in front of the public and asked another one
to confess, he was already off his anger.
4. I
learned to have more patience, like the girl who had been raped. Everyone today
can be your friend or your brother depending on how you live with each other.
5. The
play was a kind of unfinished; I didn’t see any part that can help me feel
connected to my neighbors.
6. I
didn’t know Cambodia
before.
Rwandan
genocide versus Cambodian genocide: Anka said it was only for a short period
which is the same in Rwanda;
we thought it was just for some days. Other similarities are: raping,
pillaging, unwanted losses and starvation.
Interviewer:
Paulin
Place: Byumba
Date: may, 11th
2012
1ST person, female, 60
1. It helped me because sometimes I
used to think I was alone to suffer such tragedy, but as I saw that it happened
to white and other people and they spoke out about it, I felt encouraged to
share my stories.
2. Just
after the genocide I used to have anger and feelings of revenge when I went
back to my neighborhood, Cyangugu. But after watching the girl who stopped
talking in the play, who never wanted to talk to anybody but gradually calmed
down, this taught me much because I also had the same experience.
3. I
learnt that everything easily treated can always result in better thing; I
learned that I need to do good to my haters, listen to them and give them my time
this will finally help and change them. I liked the quote in the play that
revenge is paid by revenge and this never ends.
4. Nothing
special
5. I
normally peacefully live with others; I never give chance to anything that may
results into bad.
6. I used
to hear of Cambodia and Vietnam on the
radio or TV news
7. Cambodian
genocide versus Rwandan genocide: Our genocide was internationally recognized
and given some respect but the Cambodian one was not. We can find bodies of our
lost beloved ones but the Cambodians can’t. Rich people were targeted in the
Cambodian genocide and their genocide was based on regionalism whereas in
Rwanda Tutsis were killed.
2nd
person, female, 30
1. In the
play, I was inspired by the fact that among people who were victims, some can
still teach people how to stay strong through their testimonies. I thought
ladies really had some message to us; they wanted to show us that we are not
alone during the commemoration period and we were not during genocide.
2. In the
play, I saw how Chea was asked for forgiveness. That taught me that we need to
fight revenge by forgiving. Fear sometimes stays deep inside, but we need to
focus on the future.
3. I
learned that one needs to come close and ask forgiveness to someone whose
relatives you killed, whose things you pillaged, or whom you did not hide when
they came to ask you for refuge.
4. I
think the play was very interesting, but I didn’t find a part that could help
someone better mourn their losses.
5. After
the show, my personal message was to talk to perpetrators and tell them not to
give any other chance to genocide ideology in their mind, show where they threw
or buried bodies of people they killed and ask for forgiveness. And to the
survivors to stay strong and that we will stay close to them.
6. During
seminars and workshops in previous commemorations, they told us that there had
been genocide in Cambodia
but it was not internationally recognized.
7. Comparison
between the two genocides
Cambodian
Genocide
|
Rwandan Genocide
|
Perpetrators killed
innocent people because they wanted power
|
Tutsis were killed
because of just their ethnic group
|
None
|
Our genocide was
recognized, and we also commemorate it and have memorial sites all over the
country
|
Cambodians can’t
|
We can respectfully
re-bury our bodies
|
3rd
person, female, 30
1. Sometimes
you may think you are the only one who has the problem you are having, but when
another person comes and shares with you the same story, you then know you are
not alone and feel encouraged and inspired to share yours too.
2. When
Cambodians joined us during our commemoration period, they taught us something
in addition to trainings we had with La Benevolencija. We
therefore got rid of any bad plans in our mind, can’t join violence groups or
be passive bystanders to violence.
3. They (Khmer
rouge) started by lying to people that they were going to develop their
economy but in the end they killed them and pillaged their belongings instead.
After knowing that people are now living peacefully with one another in Cambodia, I
learned that whenever someone comes and asks me for forgiveness for the crime
he committed to me, I have to forgive them and love them.
4. I
liked the candles in the Cambodian play. Even though they didn’t tell us what
they meant, I think light usually means hope, love or revival. I then decided
to light candles for the whole commemoration night we had home; this to mean
“Hope and love in us forever”.
5. I
learned to avoid and fight rancor; not only for genocide-related problems but
also for all everyday life issues. I am convinced that whenever you master your
character and overcome rancor and jealousy, you are definitely connected to
your neighbors.
6. I did
not know about Cambodia
before.
7. Our
genocide was planned years ago and it was finally accomplished. For the
Cambodians, they said it was going to be only for three days, their just wanted
to pillage their belongings and tricked people that they were going to get
rich.
4th
person, female, 56
1. I am
definitely ready to share my genocide story. Even before the play I could, but
I was strengthened by the fact that Cambodians showed us that they had a
similar experience and they could share it, especially to foreign people.
2. People
in Cambodia
were socially unequal, and in the play all of the artists were comforting one
another, this taught me to avoid anger and revenge but get close to others and
reconcile.
3. In the
play, there were conflicts at the beginning but when two ladies were having
conflicts, another third woman came and tried to reconcile them and they were
finally happy with each other. This impressed me much.
4. I
started visiting my fellow genocide survivors after watching the play. We even
requested a mass to the parish for the people that we lost and said prayers to
their tombs.
5. I was
touched by the fact that all the people in the play got together on their way
fleeing and talked about their problems together (rich and poor). This taught
me to try to get connected to all my neighbors because they are the ones who
will help me in most of my problems and difficulties.
6. I did
not know about Cambodia
before.
7. The
difference between the two genocides is that rich people were targeted in Cambodia whereas in Rwanda, ethnic group (Tutsi) was a
matter. In addition, the Cambodian army came back from their refuge to the
Vietnamese border and liberates people whereas RPF Inkotanyi from outside the
country liberated us and stopped the genocide.
SOME OF THE
GRASSROOTS’ANSWERS TO IMPACT ASSESSMENT QUESTIONS
Interviewer:
Elie
Place: Byumba
Time: May 11th,
2012
Person 1 (Female 36)
- I knew Cambodia
already. I knew that there have been mass killings, but I didn’t know how
it happened.
- I realized that using a play to talk about history is a good way
because much information is given in short time. We should learn from them
and tell our stories through the plays as they do.
- As they performed, I remembered my own life. I have been touched by
what was said by the woman who said that she was a little girl during the
genocide. She said that they killed her relatives and how she wanted to
steal the rice because she was hungry. However she has been able to live
together with the perpetrators; I learnt that there is no need to keep
thoughts of revenge in my mind because they ruin my life. I learnt a good
lesson from that group of Cambodians because we should do what our
religions tell us as they did.
- Apart from the play, La Benevolencija had already trained us about
how we can approach our opponents and try to talk with them about what we
disagree with. Seeing that the Cambodians have been able to live with the
perpetrators encouraged me to live peacefully with my opponents. As a
testimony: after the play, our group started to visit the families which
have the conflicts and try to advise them.
- The play touched me a lot. I saw the woman who was saying how she
jumped on the bodies, and I remembered how during the genocide I carried
my baby brother because my mother had been separated with him. I used to
cook banana for my baby brother because I could not breastfeed him. The
play made me remember all those things I went through.
- Now, I am learning to live together with everyone no matter their
history. At the time, I provided the service after I knew who are asking
me the service and their origin. After watching the play, I wondered how
the Cambodians have been able to live together when there is no justice
that was rendered in their country; it made me think that I should try to
live with all people more than I do now.
2nd person (male 30)
- I knew Cambodia
in history. They talk about Cambodia when they are talking
about countries where there was genocide.
- We were encouraged to participate as grassroots members, but I
would have come even if I had not been invited. Seeing people from far
away coming to show us how the genocide was carried out in their country
has made me feel courageous to do whatever to tell people what happened to
me and to Rwandans in general. I wondered what we need so that we can go
to show other people what happened here.
- According to the play, I can say that we are in advance to
Cambodians because of La
Benevolencija’s training.
- As an example, I work with old men who don’t want me to progress.
The play showed me that I should not waste my time thinking about people
who discourage me.
- During the genocide, our parents prevented us from looking where
people were killed, but I heard about the killings in testimonies and
watched the films about genocide. During the play, I remembered all I
heard about genocide, and I felt I have to do everything possible to
prevent it from happening again.
- In the play, I learnt that Cambodians have been able to live
together. We, Rwandans, are in advance about justice and reconciliation,
so we have to live with all people peacefully; even with the people who committed
genocide.
3rd person (female 34)
- Some time, I heard about Cambodia where they were
saying that there have been mass killings, and they were doing a research
to know if what happened there was the genocide.
- Maybe because the Cambodians saw that the world didn’t understand
what happened in their country, they tried to make their genocide known to
the world through the play. I felt that I should do whatever to make
everybody know what happened in Rwanda.
- We, Rwandans, started long ago to control our emotions because we
did not take revenge. Personally, I learnt that I should not be frightened
by anything because we have a good government.
- In the play, I learnt that revenge is followed by revenge. Your
opponents can attack your ideas, but if you ignore them, they see that
they are wasting their time and stop harassing you.
- When they performed and said that their relatives fled but never
came back, I remembered Rwandans who fled during the genocide, but we
didn’t know where they may have been killed.
- During the play, I took the time to think about hate. I learnt that
hate is like a burden, and people who hate others are always troubled by
that feeling.
4th person (Female)
- I heard about Cambodia
on radio, but I never heard about their genocide.
- The genocide in Cambodia
is not known by many people, but when they play, it is easy to know what
happened in their country. Watching the play made me feel zealous to say
what happened during genocide in Rwanda.
- If I had been able to ask a question, I would have asked them if
they really forgave who committed the genocide against them. After
genocide, we were like animals, and we were afraid of one another. Through
training, like the training of La Benevolencija, and testimonies on radios we
are encouraged to live side by side with everyone, so we have many reasons
to live with all people more than Cambodians can do.
- The play was like a reminder of what we learned from La Benevolencija. We
already know that we have to approach our opponents and try to talk with
them. What they played was like testimony, and they showed us that
tolerance is possible.
- The play was during the commemoration week, so when they talked
about people who were killed, we remembered what was done to Tutsi during
the genocide.
- We got a chance because there were jurisdictions in our country,
and the perpetrators apologized. The Cambodians have been able to live
together with the perpetrators who never faced the justice; that is a good
example that nothing can prevent us from living together.
